The Third Round: Dealing with the Hard Sayings Through Removing Ideas of Person Place Space and Time

From the work, Apocalypse Explained 175

“Nations and peoples” are often mentioned in the Word, and those who know nothing of the spiritual or internal sense of the Word, believe that peoples and nations are to be understood. But “peoples” mean those who are in truths, or in the contrary sense those who are in falsities, and “nations” those who are in goods, or in the contrary sense, those who are in evils. And as such are meant by “peoples” and by “nations,” so abstractly from persons “peoples” mean truths or falsities, and “nations” goods and evils; for the true spiritual sense is abstracted from persons, spaces, times, and like things, that are proper to nature.

From the work, Arcana Coelestia 8325.2

What natural man can comprehend that there are no spaces and times in heaven; but instead thereof states; namely, states of good, or states of being, instead of spaces; and states of truth, or states of coming-forth, instead of times? Will not the merely natural man believe that there is absolute emptiness and nothingness where there are no time and space? From this it is evident that if the natural man concludes in himself that nothing is to be believed except what he apprehends, he then casts himself into enormous errors. As the case is with spaces and times, so also it is with many other things; as for example, the natural man must needs fall into phantasy about the Divine, when he thinks from time about what the Divine was doing before the creation of the world, that is, what It had done from eternity till then; nor can he be extricated from this knot until the ideas of time and of space are removed. When the angels think about this eternity, they never think about it from time, but from state.

From the work, Apocalypse Explained 1049

…in the spiritual sense of the Word there is no idea of person, place or time; but it is otherwise with its natural sense.

From the work, Arcana Coelestia 5095

What is the nature of the internal sense in the historic and prophetic portions of the Word, must be briefly told. Where several persons are mentioned in the historic sense-as here Joseph, Pharaoh, the prince of the guards, the butler and the baker-in the internal sense they indeed signify various things; but only in one person. The reason is that names signify things, as for instance Joseph here represents the Lord as to the celestial spiritual from the rational and also in the natural, Pharaoh represents Him as to the new state of the natural or as to the interior natural, the butler and the baker represent Him as to those things which are of the exterior natural. Such is the internal sense; and it is the same in other places, as where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are mentioned. . . .

From the work, New Jerusalem and It’s Heavenly Doctrine 149

…a man cannot be reformed, unless he is in freedom, is on account of his being born into evils of every kind, which have to be removed, in order that he may be saved. These evils, however, cannot be removed, unless the man sees them in himself, and acknowledges them; and afterwards no longer wills them, and at length shuns them; it is then only that they are removed. This cannot be brought about unless the man is in good as well as in evil; for from good, he is able to see evils, but from evil he cannot see goods.

From the work, Arcana Coelestia 4247.3

[3] From this it is evident how the case is with influx, and with the appropriation of truth by good, namely, that first of all the truths of faith are insinuated through the hearing or through the sight, and are then stored up in the memory; from which they are successively elevated into knowledge, and at last flow into the will, and when in this they proceed thence through thought into act; and if they cannot go into act, they are in endeavor, which is itself an internal act, and whenever there is an opportunity this becomes an external act.

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Ian Arnold
Ian Arnold
4 years ago

Hi David, This is really helpful, especially when it comes to what is in the Writings and seems to be harsh and judgmental. I love your analogy of the Trojan horse. And the way you put it, that the Lord has to find a way to get us to a point when we begin to see that what is written is in fact all about us, within. Blessings, and warm good wishes,Ian

Ian Arnold
Ian Arnold
Reply to  Ian Arnold
4 years ago

Thanks, David, for what you say about hard sayings. Over the years I have stumbled when it comes to what the Writings say about the Jews (for instance), or (as in The Spiritual Diary), about the Apostle Paul. But to realize that these things said highlight and bring to our attention aspects of our very own proprium is very helpful. But then we run up against the new reader who, reflecting on this, says we are therefore not taking the Writings literally. How come? Very best wishes, Ian

Sarah Walker
Sarah Walker
Reply to  Ian Arnold
4 years ago

Hi Ian. That’s a really great question and one I find myself answering often for people and also thinking about it myself, so I’m gong to jump in and add my thoughts here too… One of the foundational premises of Logopraxis is that the Lord is the Word and that the Word includes both the Sacred Scriptures and the Heavenly Doctrines. And because it is the Lord as the Word it is therefore a text about spiritual life and the life of our mind being regenerated into a heavenly human form but it uses natural imagery and descriptions to depict… Read more »

Sarah Walker
Sarah Walker
Reply to  Sarah Walker
4 years ago

I found the number I was thinking of in relation to seeing opposites: DP[2] What kinds of unclean things there are that titillate the bodily fibers of such persons it is granted to every one after death to know in the spiritual world. They are in general cadaverous, excrementitious, stercoraceous, reeking, and urinous things, for the hells of such abound in these unclean things. That these are correspondences can be seen in Divine Love and Wisdom 422-424). But after they have entered hell these filthy pleasures are turned into direful things. All this has been said that it may be… Read more »